Mosque gets Ok...

[centennialdawg]

So you're blaming the existence of a mosque in a particular area for Christian/militia terrorism? Did you really just say that?

Then I guess you would blame a Christian church's existence for any Islamic terrorism against it too, right? I suppose a rape victim got what she deserved b/c she was in the same area as a person w/a penis? That's a really bad stance to attempt to take on this CD...

Nothing excuses terrorism. It's ludicrous to try to take the stance and say otherwise. We have to protect both religious freedom in this country and the separation of church and state if we want the moral fabric of this country to return to normal. Things wouldn't be nearly as crazy if both of those ideals took center stage in our country's mindset.

Now, you are sounding like r13(guess his way has rubbed off on some after all) I am not saying that . All I am saying is that given the current climate of America's intolerance to what many perceive as a slap in the face challenging one to a duel, something is bound to happen. This is also perceived as a "tear" in the very fabric of our nation, not because it is a mosque, but the fact that in a lot of people's perception, that mosque represents(quite wrongly I might add) the evil that was done to our country. To think any differently would be ludacrus.

[1inStripes]

Does anyone else find it ironic the law that Coeburn Cane is bringing up? Seperation of Church and State? And people say this country wasn't founded on Christian principles......

[CoeburnCane]

Does anyone else find it ironic the law that Coeburn Cane is bringing up? Seperation of Church and State? And people say this country wasn't founded on Christian principles......

How is Separation of Church and State a "Christrian principle"?

If that's what you think...I've got a very good book for you to read, as soon as I'm done w/it that is.

Separation of Church and State was meant to keep religion out of government affairs. It also precluded the state from meddling in religion, hence the idea of freedom of religion given to us by the First Amendment.

NOTHING in the Constitution of this nation endorses Christianity as the official religion. People have pushed for it ever since the birth of our nation, and still do today, but our founders were smart enough to keep that wall of separation there so ALL would have freedom to worship how they see fit.

I'm sorry that Christians today and back then don't like that, but the moment you take it away--that's the moment you endanger your right to worship Christianity, because if the government changes their mind one day and decides that Islam is the new state religion--then you're boned.

[CoeburnCane]

Now, you are sounding like r13(guess his way has rubbed off on some after all) I am not saying that . All I am saying is that given the current climate of America's intolerance to what many perceive as a slap in the face challenging one to a duel, something is bound to happen. This is also perceived as a "tear" in the very fabric of our nation, not because it is a mosque, but the fact that in a lot of people's perception, that mosque represents(quite wrongly I might add) the evil that was done to our country. To think any differently would be ludacrus.

I'm not in disagreement that violence could happen. What I'm flabbergasted about is that you would imply that the blame would lie w/the mosque if something DID happen instead of whoever would perpetrate said terrorist attack on the mosque.

Instead of pussyfooting around and making excuses why said mosque can't be built in a land of (supposed) religious freedom, why not go after the people who are wanting to commit terrorist acts on any religion and stop them cold? That would cut the nuts off of any attacks to any religion on US soil, and hopefully start a worldwide trend.

And go fack yourself with the R13 comment. I'm discussing from a way different viewpoint than he is and I'm not out for myself to make me look good like he is. I'm the only one on this thread that's even considering how this affects our Constitution and the Separation of Church and State, and how pivotal this issue is concerning how our country is perceived vis-a-vis religious freedom moving forward.

[Monkeyhead]

I think we should set up fight between R13 and Milk. I will ref and I will also find three judges for the bout.

[centennialdawg]

I'm not in disagreement that violence could happen. What I'm flabbergasted about is that you would imply that the blame would lie w/the mosque if something DID happen instead of whoever would perpetrate said terrorist attack on the mosque.

Instead of pussyfooting around and making excuses why said mosque can't be built in a land of (supposed) religious freedom, why not go after the people who are wanting to commit terrorist acts on any religion and stop them cold? That would cut the nuts off of any attacks to any religion on US soil, and hopefully start a worldwide trend.

And go fack yourself with the R13 comment. I'm discussing from a way different viewpoint than he is and I'm not out for myself to make me look good like he is. I'm the only one on this thread that's even considering how this affects our Constitution and the Separation of Church and State, and how pivotal this issue is concerning how our country is perceived vis-a-vis religious freedom moving forward.

I beg to differ with you, dude. Nobody believes in religious freedom any more than I do. Hell, I have Catholics, Jews, and yes Muslims in my family, so I do know a little something about this. The only thing that I have been trying to get across is the fact that I question their judgement on building there. Hell, they can built it right on top of ground zero for that matter. Would it be a smart thing to do? NO, it wouldn't. Do I think they are inviting trouble by building where they intend to? Yep, certainly do. Do I know anything about militias, and such, you had better belive it. I have studied them extensively. I don't belong to one and never will, I think they are un-american and tend to align themselves with nazism. I know how it affects our Constitution, especially with the separation of church and state. But, if you think that public opinion of this subject will not weigh in on the final disposition, then you are sadly mistaken.

And as far as me going to faack myself, no thank you. And DO I SEE YOU FINALLY ADMITTING THAT HE IS ONLY POSTING TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK GOOD? HOLD THE PRESSES, SWEET JESUS, you finally come out and admit his postings(on this particular thread) anyway are only to make him look good. Thank you for admitting that. As always, I respectfully disagree.:snickerpup:

[R13]

For mosques, ‘anywhere but there’ echoes far beyond Ground Zero - Kingsport Times-News Online

Nice article in the Ksport today about the "anywhere but here" argument, it's the same reaction everywhere, it's ridiculous.

[Milk3]

For mosques, ‘anywhere but there’ echoes far beyond Ground Zero - Kingsport Times-News Online

Nice article in the Ksport today about the "anywhere but here" argument, it's the same reaction everywhere, it's ridiculous.

That's an example of people narrow minded people can be. If they want to build it let them. That close to ground zero just isn't smart IMO

[CoeburnCane]

I beg to differ with you, dude. Nobody believes in religious freedom any more than I do. Hell, I have Catholics, Jews, and yes Muslims in my family, so I do know a little something about this. The only thing that I have been trying to get across is the fact that I question their judgement on building there. Hell, they can built it right on top of ground zero for that matter. Would it be a smart thing to do? NO, it wouldn't. Do I think they are inviting trouble by building where they intend to? Yep, certainly do. Do I know anything about militias, and such, you had better belive it. I have studied them extensively. I don't belong to one and never will, I think they are un-american and tend to align themselves with nazism. I know how it affects our Constitution, especially with the separation of church and state. But, if you think that public opinion of this subject will not weigh in on the final disposition, then you are sadly mistaken.

While that's all nice and good...you still didn't answer my question, though. Instead of trying to stop the mosque from being built for fear of the possibility of retaliation by a militia/terrorist group, why aren't we trying to go after the militia/terrorist groups and shutting them down to start with? Allow the mosque to be built, and stop trampling on religious freedom for fear of a terrorist attack. You deny religion, the terrorists/militias get their way anyways...it's a lose-lose situation if you ignore actively stomping out religious intolerance and militia/terrorist groups that hold those ideals.

All disallowing the mosque does is give those intolerant people what they want. Is that the type of country you want to be living in? It could be Jews or Christians next, if those militias decide that's what they want to go after.

And as far as me going to faack myself, no thank you. And DO I SEE YOU FINALLY ADMITTING THAT HE IS ONLY POSTING TO MAKE HIMSELF LOOK GOOD? HOLD THE PRESSES, SWEET JESUS, you finally come out and admit his postings(on this particular thread) anyway are only to make him look good. Thank you for admitting that. As always, I respectfully disagree.

Enough of your patronizing tone. If you want to simply discuss the topic as we have above w/o the personal shots, then go for it. I have no problem doing that. Just don't lump my discussion and viewpoints in with someone else's either when they're from a completely different perspective.

If you want to continue acting like I'm covering R13's ass when I don't even like him, AND I sent him a PM yesterday warning him and telling him to back off or he was going to get banned and Politics/Religion board access taken away...then go ahead. You look like the idiot in that case, and the repercussions are yours to have.

[centennialdawg]

While that's all nice and good...you still didn't answer my question, though. Instead of trying to stop the mosque from being built for fear of the possibility of retaliation by a militia/terrorist group, why aren't we trying to go after the militia/terrorist groups and shutting them down to start with? Allow the mosque to be built, and stop trampling on religious freedom for fear of a terrorist attack. You deny religion, the terrorists/militias get their way anyways...it's a lose-lose situation if you ignore actively stomping out religious intolerance and militia/terrorist groups that hold those ideals.

All disallowing the mosque does is give those intolerant people what they want. Is that the type of country you want to be living in? It could be Jews or Christians next, if those militias decide that's what they want to go after.


Enough of your patronizing tone. If you want to simply discuss the topic as we have above w/o the personal shots, then go for it. I have no problem doing that. Just don't lump my discussion and viewpoints in with someone else's either when they're from a completely different perspective.

If you want to continue acting like I'm covering R13's ass when I don't even like him, AND I sent him a PM yesterday warning him and telling him to back off or he was going to get banned and Politics/Religion board access taken away...then go ahead. You look like the idiot in that case, and the repercussions are yours to have.

Isn't the government trying to put a lid on militia's? What about Ruby Ridge? Did the government not stop them? Did I ever say I agree with the militia's? Did I ever say that muslime don't have the right to build there...as a matter of fact I said it was their absolute right. I just questioned their judgement on the location. And for that you theaten to ban me and r13. i mean, Jesus Christ, dude. Can't anyone have a disagreement and state their opinion on here any more without you threatening to ban? I hold no ill feelings toward him, I do think he is too liberal thinking for his own good, but then again, I guess he feels I am a little too conservative.

Do I think you need to ease up some? Yep, sure do, but then again, so do a lot of other people. Just an opinion. Like I say, opinions are like a@@holes, everybody has one. The only thing I think r13 needs to do is to quit posting the whole article on stuff, it takes up room and it tends to get people dis-interested in what he is trying to say. Post the link instead. If people are interested, they will click the link.

Nope, I was not patronizing and if you thought that I was, then that was you who mis-understood my last post. I did say that I respectfully disagree, and that was not patronizing. I can not and will not agree with the principles that the extremist muslims have and there will be extremists there, there always is as with any other religion.